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Yoo-hoo! @TechConnectify! 🙄 it’s like they watched your video!

Study: 1 in 5 EV charging attempts fails https://apple.news/AfcIJw-1TNLasLg-BKUMBdg

@jann @TechConnectify Imagine what it would be like if gas pumps were just lined up on a curb with no one watching or maintaining them. They’d fail, too. But with much more spectacular results.

@genecowan @TechConnectify Basically Alec made somewhat the same point ... When you think about it, it's SO strange that the EV Charger stations do not have covers (ie: like over gas pumps), restaurants, convenience stores, and personnel to help when things went wrong - not to mention ACCEPT CASH or CC for charging.

@jann @TechConnectify Not strange at all because they’re completely unattended. If they took cash they’d all be broken into; if they took credit cards (some do) they would be covered with card skimmers. I like Tesla’s model where it just communicates with the car and gets the vin for charging to a card on file. Just plug in, no interface at all.

@genecowan @TechConnectify No, you got me wrong. EV stations SHOULD be covered, have attendants, food, restrooms, etc... I think it's strange that these companies figure they shouldn't have these things!

BTW: You may LOVE giving your payment info to yet ANOTHER company - and in the case of non-Tesla, MULTPLE companies, but I like giving my info to my iPhone and ApplePay'ing my way through life. I dislike my car having any payment info.

@jann @TechConnectify and that’s one of the reasons Tesla has been successful. Their superchargers are always placed at locations with food & restrooms. Attendants… well, that’s never gonna happen.

@genecowan @jann

A huge caveat that I think you're missing is *in this transitionary period*

I want there to be a place which exists to sell charging as a service. In other words, I want gas stations... but with chargers.

It's honestly pretty weird to me that Tesla fans imagine SC locations as some form of ideal. No, thank you, I'd like Love's and Pilot to have banks of fast chargers that they're responsible for, not faceless chargers which just happen to be conveniently co-located.

@genecowan @jann The gas station model wasn't just miraculously happened upon, it's the result of decades of industry refinement responding to customer needs.

Once charging is a 10-15 minute experience (which is already is with my car), throughput will be similar-enough to gas, and then you're gonna get people selling EV charging at near-cost with a restaurant, convenience store, and other actual money-makers on site.

This is, of course, only for long-distance travel.

@TechConnectify @jann Unfortunately selling charging as a service has already inflated the cost of electricity beyond the point that it is an alternative to gas. Even Tesla has now priced charging to a point where it is getting exploitative. They’re all using the gas model, which worries me. The power companies are gonna want in on that action.

@genecowan @jann Right, but that's the thing, though.

The gas that gas stations sell isn't the money maker. It's the services.

So as much as Tesla is clever by only handling the charging part and leaving the services to others, they're also missing out on that revenue which is ultimately what makes gas stations profitable. And that means they need to recoup their costs purely through charging, hence higher prices.

Yet another reason we need competition. There are better models out there.

@genecowan @jann Tesla's done a great job bootstrapping infrastructure and making long-distance EV driving possible (as well as proving its viability) but there are just sooooo many reasons automakers shouldn't be in the business of providing charging.

Making money from the charging will, long-term, just not be viable. Eventually somebody's gonna copy the gas station model, and everyone will charge there. So unless they want to learn the ins-and-outs of that business, they'll probably leave.

@TechConnectify @genecowan BTW: On a slightly diff note, did they ever fix the brake lights on your car with a firmware update?

@jann Yes! There's a TSB out now and the software is ready (for Kias, too).

I haven't gotten a letter about it yet, but when I do - I'm framing that sucker ;)

@TechConnectify @jann They had an attempt at this in California, a supercharger with an attendant, snacks and coffee, and merch. The attendant didn’t last long at all.

@genecowan @jann And you think things won't change?

This is what I struggle with. I'm looking ahead, and I see a world where Tesla's model stops working effectively.

They'll be undercut on charging cost by people subsidizing installs with convenience stores, and that infrastructure will likely make a more pleasant experience, too.

@TechConnectify @jann My mother works at a regional visitor’s center, and they’ve put two level 2 chargers in the parking lot. They’re a nice surprise for people who discover them, but to make all this work they need to be high voltage DC and discoverable on in-car maps.

@genecowan @jann Again with the maps thing.

This is honestly so baffling to me as an outsider to Tesla's world. Do people with gas cars care that gas stations are mapped? No, because they're ubiquitous.

We seem to be having two discussion - you're talking about how awesome today's band-aids are, and I'm talking about how we get to a world without band-aids.

@genecowan @jann And yeah, we're talking about DC fast charging here.

Which I hope is needed near-exclusively between cities. I would like L2 charging plastered all over the place and dearly hope we don't solve the renters/apartment building problem with urban DC stations.

@TechConnectify @jann Well, so what we need are signs at highway exits showing that charging is available in xx miles; and big towering signs at the stations.

One thing that also has to change is range anxiety. People want to plan ahead so need a map. When they are ubiquitous as you say, perhaps the gas station model begins to work better.

@genecowan @TechConnectify THAT'S fixable! All those blue info signs? Tesla could buy a place on those (that's how restaurants & gas stations get the placement).

They'd have to be within X miles from the exit, but still Tesla could do that today. They don't.

I can't believe that Tesla won't do signs at/near their locations, either. It's STUPID!

This is about making people feel comfortable enough to invest in electric cars. They won't do that if they don't know recharge points aren't nearby.

@jann @genecowan Actually, this is an excellent point.

Hiding-away the infrastructure like Tesla does isn't a great way to spread awareness that EV charging even /exists/

EA is just as bad, to be clear, but why are we making this something you need to be in-the-know about?

Ideally it should be HEY, LOOK AT ME! CHARGE YOUR CAR HERE!

Right now I only see new stations pop up looking at Plugshare, and that's pretty silly.

@TechConnectify @genecowan I have an issue w/solving "renters/apartment" issue within the scope of the next 5 years or so.

I'm more worried about enabling people who have EVs to get them charged away from home first.

If we don't do that, range anxiety will kill EVs before they're cost-effective enough to let the masses buy them in the first place.

I agree, renters and apartment building need to be covered. BUT I'm hoping we get to the point where those ppl can charge them ANYwhere.

@jann @genecowan This is a fair point.

Sadly, it will worsen income inequality, though. Renters who can't pay retail electricity rates and need a car won't see the savings without heavy subsidies. I don't like leaving them out to dry like that, but you have me considering whether it will take too long to fix that.

@kazriko 30 minutes charges are already on the long side. My car takes at most 20 minutes to reach 80%, and that's assuming I roll in with only 10% charge.

@kazriko @TechConnectify @jann This is the location of one of the Superchargers I stopped at when driving across the country. It’s in tiny Yermo, California. I probably shopped for stuff longer than I needed to charge.